Let Others Fail

Allison Williams: [00:00:12] Hi, everybody, it’s Allison Williams here, your Law Firm Mentor. Law Firm Mentor is a business coaching service for solo and small law firm attorneys. We help you grow your revenues, crush chaos in business and make more money.

 

Allison Williams: [00:00:25] Hi everyone it’s Allison Williams here, your Law Firm Mentor, and welcome to another edition of The Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast, where today we’re going to be talking about letting others fail. So this is my favorite topic, actually, of all the things that we talk about involving people, the idea of training and cultivating a culture of people that know how to do things without you. It’s such a challenging topic for most law firm owners, just about every client I’ve ever had or worked with in any capacity or even just people that approached me online. We talk a lot about how there’s no freedom in owning a law firm because there’s so much stress and agita that’s involved in actually having people work for you. So many law firm owners decide they don’t want to grow because they’ve hired before. Their employees did not perform the way that they wanted. And as a result, they have made up in their mind that there is no way for them to have a law firm that runs without them because they always get the wrong employee. Or either they get the wrong employee or they just don’t know how to train and manage and cultivate high performance in their teams. So today we’re going to talk about high performance but from the perspective of failure. Now, I know a lot of people are triggered by the idea of failure, and a lot of times we associate failure as a personal failing, meaning there’s something wrong about me, either I’m wrong or I’m not good enough or there’s something about me that is broken that led to this failure, even when all circumstances outside of yourself are pointing to your just not having mastered the different strategies that are involved in whatever it was that you failed at.

 

Allison Williams: [00:02:11] But we take it personally when we fail. And then as a result, we embed in our DNA a mindset that says failure is bad. Failure is wrong. So I want you to think back to when you were a child and you had a parent that in some way encouraged you to try something new. Maybe it was trying to a new sport or a new musical instrument or to go make new friends. Right? And you didn’t have the skill to do those things yet, but you tried. Their response to your trying and not succeeding the first time or not succeeding at the level that you would want or they would want for you, that first time, is really going to influence you. And what tends to happen over the course of time is that most people want the best for their children, they want their children to succeed but when the child does not succeed, there is some degree of come on, you can do it, handholding push you in the right direction. And to some degree, there could be a lot of negative associations with that. It could be that the parent rolls their eyes or lets out a dejected sigh. Or simply punishes the children.

 

Allison Williams: [00:03:19] There are some parents that, that firmly believe that the way that you develop a winner is a mindset, is that you punish failure so that they have no desire to do anything other than succeed and they push themselves to succeed. In fact, a lot of lawyers actually evolved out of that type of home environment, whether it was a punitive response that was caustic and abusive or it was simply words of support couched in terms of what we support in this household is success, implying that there is a negativity around failure and that there’s less value for someone who fails. So a lot of people have that story encoded in their DNA when they become a lawyer and then especially when they become a law firm owner. So then they become very resistant to doing anything that they’re not certain is going to succeed. So I want to give us a frame of reference to talk about failure from the perspective of not our own failure, right? Which we have to recognize that admitting ourselves, but the failure of others and in particular, I’m going to give you, I’m going to share with you a little story about something that happened really recently. This was just last weekend and still made such an imprint on me that I posted about it on social media and then someone else, shout out to Jordan Ostroff who’s also been on the podcast. Jordan is the CEO of LegalEase Marketing.

 

Allison Williams: [00:04:42] Jordan then shared the story again on LinkedIn. So I knew that the story had not only impacted me and impacted others, but impacted people in a, in a way, in a way that one would not expect it to impact them. So I’m going to share that story with you, and then I’m going to give you some, some food for thought around how we can use this story as a teachable moment to let others fail as a way of ultimately cataclysmically changing and evolving and mastering our own success. Ok, so here’s the story. So for those of you that have followed me on social media for any length of time, you know that I have a headful of hair and I’m always doing something different with my hair in large part because when I was a lawyer, when I started my legal career, I had a lot of concern about how I would be perceived. And I think a lot of us have that. But I think I have that to the best degree, because I grew up black in the south. That wasn’t the most positive experience and when I moved to New Jersey, I had a lot of things to change about myself in order to in what I thought would be fit the mold of a lawyer. Right? Lawyers tend to be male. I’m female. Lawyers tend to be white. I’m black. Lawyers tend to be conservative. I’m moderate. But at the time, I was much more liberal.

 

Allison Williams: [00:06:01] Lawyers tend to be very reserved in their appearance, and I tended to like flashy colors and high heels and at that time, I, by the time I started my legal career, I had 5 holes in my ear and I used to wear big bangle bracelets. Thank God, those days are, the bracelets are over. But, you know, I was a boisterous personality. So it was very challenging for me to try to fit myself into what I thought I was supposed to be as a lawyer. Of course, I was completely misguided in that thought but those were my thoughts. So I have always had to maintain my hair in a very conservative style, or at least that’s what I thought. And then when I stopped, when I got into a certain place in my career, I kind of let go of that belief. But you know what? I’m actually going to be who I am, because who I am seeps out regardless. So here I am. And now I play with my hair all the time. So I was at the hair salon. This is where the story goes now for the men that are listening, I don’t want you to tune out, I don’t want you saying, oh, God, we’re talking about the hair salon this doesn’t apply to me at all, because the story 100 percent applies to everyone that owns a law firm. So I happened to be in a hair salon when this particular story evolved.

 

Allison Williams: [00:07:10] And I got into the salon and my stylist approached me as soon as I got there and said, OK, so we have a little situation. The shampoo girl, unnamed, quit on short notice and she had a family emergency, we recognized that it was a valid reason for her to quit, but she quit on one week’s notice. So my hair stylist that I had, I had to go find someone, so I hired someone. And, you know, she’s, she’s been certified by such and such beauty school and she’s going to shampoo your hair. Now, I come into the hair salon. I’d just taken my braids out. So I have this wildabush almost Afro looking monstrosity of hair going everywhere. And I thought, OK, this ought to be fun, right? Because I have a lot more hair than a lot of people. So Shampoo Girl starts and you can tell she’s kind of fighting with my hair, right? She doesn’t quite, she knows that she’s not supposed to scrub my scalp because I’m going to have color applied because I got the skunk at the top of my head. Right? That’s what happens in your 40s. And so she, she knew not to scrub my scalp, but she didn’t know how to, how to manage my hair without doing that. And then she really couldn’t get the comb through it, because I have kinky quilly hair. And for those of you that know hair textures, it’s between 4A and 4B, and it’s kind of a mismosh, mismatch? MishMosh.

 

Allison Williams: [00:08:32] I think it’s mish-mosh. It’s kind of a mish-mosh of hair all over the top of my head. And so she was really fighting with it. And so finally we get done with shampoo and she’s now to blow dry. And the blow drying was just an awful experience, I love her, I love my stylist, I absolutely recommend them. But I’m not going to use their names because I don’t want to insult this person. But, man, it was not pleasant. She kept burning my scalp, right? She kept having this very, very high heat device put directly onto my scalp instead of onto the hair. And instead of learning how to both brush the hair while she is running the blow dryer down the hair shaft, the way that my hairstylist would normally do. So at some point, my stylist kind of saw me, I’m sitting in the salon with a mask on. She sees me kind of wincing underneath my mask and she comes over and she’s like. She’s like. Let me do this. And she takes over. She grabs the and not in a mean way but she grabs the brush and the and the blow dryer. And she just starts doing the job, right? And she starts talking a little bit. She says, see, look how I’m holding the brush, look how I’m holding the blow dryer. I’m going to now show you.

 

Allison Williams: [00:09:45] And then she just continued until basically, my entire head was dry, which was great for me because I was tired of being burned and I was tired of having like my tangled hair yanked in a very painful way. But it’s not great for the employee and so this moment in time passed and, you know, life goes on. And then at the end, I was paying to go out and my stylist said to me, she, she just had a very dejected look on her face and she kind of shakes her head and she said shook her head. And she looked at me because she knows I’m a business coach and she said, you know, what do you suggest? And I think I was just like, feel the tears welling up inside of her. And I said, here’s the thing, don’t take it over from her. Like you have to, you have to take a few deep breaths. You have to control your own emotions and then you have to let her fail. And I know that that’s very uncomfortable. It’s very unsettling to think that someone who previously had a top 10 rating of your service is now going to have a less than top 10 experience in your business. But here’s the thing. We don’t stay at the level two or the level three or the level five. She’s going to get to attend, but she’s not going to get there, if you demoralize her in the process and she ultimately quits before she gets there. Or if you decide that she can’t cut it because she doesn’t get there fast enough. Right? Part of getting her there is your responsibility.

 

Allison Williams: [00:11:15] So what you ultimately have to do is you did a great job walking her through what you were doing when you came over, took the brush and the blow dryer. Next time, let her do it while you stand there. Right? You be the safety net for her. Let her have the support of you right next to her coaching her, training her, showing her after you’ve done the demonstration. That involves her in the process, that also gives her the opportunity as she’s starting to do it wrong instinctually, to start doing it right. And then to practice doing it right in front of you. So that was the crux of the story. My, my hairdresser has checked in with me, so this was a Sunday experience. The shop has been open since then and she said she tried that and it actually did make a difference. So I want to share that story with you, because I want you to take that story and see how it applies in a law firm. So when we own a law firm and we have the responsibility of being highly regulated, highly policed, highly evaluated with very, very stringent requirements on ourselves, from ourselves, as well as from the public and from the bar. We oftentimes look at any level of less than perfection as unacceptable.

 

Allison Williams: [00:12:31] And here’s the problem with that mindset. We are less than perfection. All of us there is, there are so many things to do in the course of running a law firm, from marketing to sales to hiring people, developing people, coaching people, managing people, leading people, compensating people to managing our finances, to our profit and loss statements, to our business plan, to our, our balance sheet, to getting into the weeds of all of the minutia of the legal work that we do. Right? And there’s no way for us to be an expert at all of it all of the time. Even if you are expert at it all of the time, you are not expert at it all of the time. So what I mean by that, I know that that sounded like I’m being completely inconsistent and to some degree I am, because I want you to think. There are any number of super uber achievers that figure out the efficiencies of how to draft their documents and how to stamp their documents and how to fax or email or electronically transmit their documents, to how to use a portal, to how to use software, to how to deliver things on time, how to get things in-transit over to the required party. And all of those tasks may be something that you can do. But if they are not the highest and best use of your time in a law firm, then you are ultimately failing in your most critical role, which is that of CEO.

 

Allison Williams: [00:13:59] Ok? Even if you don’t truly desire to be a CEO, even if you want to be a practicing attorney and that’s your love and you really want to just have some help in your business, right? You still want to go to court or negotiate deals or be the transactional attorney. But you also want to have people around managing the money, organizing the activity, marketing the firm. You’re still going to have the responsibility of CEO unless and until you hire out that role in your law firm. Ok? And as a small business owner, we know that we have some restrictions on truly being able to hire it out. In most jurisdictions, you would have to hire it out to a lawyer and you would have to compensate them for all the things that they do not currently have the aptitude for, unless they already ran a very successful, well-organized, highly systematized law firm. So most of us are not going to outsource that role. Right? That’s going to be our role. And every moment that you are in someone else’s line, when you are doing someone else’s job, when you are taking on responsibilities that are lower than your pay grade, you are failing at the role of the CEO and you are failing not only yourself, but others who rely upon you. You’re failing your team, you’re failing your clients.

 

Allison Williams: [00:15:12] And I use those very strong words because it is a very real problem. And if you don’t start to see it as a very real problem, there can be an instinct that says, hey! You know, I’m a jack of all trades and I’m really good at being a secretary, I’m really good at being a file clerk, I’m really good at being a marketing assistant. So I’ll just do those things. In addition to practicing law, in addition to paying the bills, in addition to hiring the people. And at some point, you tap out because what happens is you get into the role of sustaining your business, meaning just keeping the lights on and the bills paid rather than thriving in business, which requires you to have a certain level of space around you so that you can strategically engineer the role of your business and so that you can thrive within all of the changes of the complex business world that we live in. And that takes a lot out of a person, and most people, they believe that by adding other humans, they are going to add even more to that overextended, overwhelmed plate. And what I want you to think about is that is just as you had to learn at some point how to address the court in oral arguments. You had to learn at some point how to author a legal brief as you were learning those skills, you were not great at it, you failed at it on your journey to being as good at it as you are right now.

 

Allison Williams: [00:16:35] However good you are right now. And so your employees are going to have to go through a similar journey. And one of the greatest skills that you can cultivate as a CEO is learning how to sit in the shit of their failure so that you can let them fail and support them through the failure so that they get to the other side of this. And there’s so much resistance that we have around that, because we associate having a superior reputation with delivering superior at the level that we’re at or above all the time. But here’s the other thing that’s really, really amazing to me. Most lawyers can identify at least one lawyer in the marketplace that they think is exceptional, a person that they consider to be aspirational, they would love to be that lawyer. And when they think about that lawyer, they would probably say that they would not want to employ that lawyer because they don’t want to have someone who’s better than they are. But if your being superior is truly about how well you serve your clients and how great your reputation is, then adding someone who is better at lawyering than you are would only enhance your reputation. So there really is more at play when you think about it that way, because if not, all of us would be on the hunt for the unicorn who’s exceptional in the law, and we would be aggressively pursuing those people to work with us.

 

Allison Williams: [00:17:50] Some of us have had those thoughts, but then thought, I’m not good enough to attract that person, which is a whole other discussion for another podcast. So I just want to give you some of the teaching points from that story, with the frame of reference that our goal is to let others fail so that they can succeed faster, better and ultimately get to a place where we’re not necessary.

 

Allison Williams: [00:18:13] Ok, so teaching point number one from that story, is that demonstrating a skill, whatever that skill is in your business, is only step one. You have to demonstrate and then allow the person to do the tasks in your presence. Ok? Now, for some of you, you might be thinking, well, if I hire a lawyer and I have to sit and babysit them the entire time, I’m not really learning a whole lot here. Right’ I’m not, I’m not getting a whole lot out of it because it’s double duty. I can’t double bill the client and then I’m stuck on the wheel of having the same amount of work, I’m just now watching someone else fail while that work is done. And the answer to that is not exactly, right? So depending on who you have hired and depending on what role they are doing, there will be some skills that you don’t have to give them, right? There are some things that they’re going to know like you’re not going to hire somebody who knows nothing about practicing law unless you make a critical mistake of hiring a baby lawyer, which I highly advise against.

 

Allison Williams: [00:19:13] We’ve just had a conversation about, about baby lawyers. And when I refer to as quote-unquote, parenting your baby lawyer. That was a recent podcast episode. Check that out if you haven’t listened to it already. But let’s assume that you did not hire a baby lawyer, that you hired a lawyer with some experience, right? There may be some things that he or she still needs to learn, but they’re able to run a basic file in your office from soup to nuts. You’re still going to have those moments where you want to help them to get to the next level if you have hired someone who is less experienced than you are. And so with that, there becomes a necessity of when you are demonstrating, not just demonstrating and walk away, right? Don’t just take them to court. Take them to court and debrief with them, ask them questions, let them see and express to you what they got out of that experience and then at some point, you want to flip those roles, right? So at some point, you want your lawyer to be the one on the hot seat performing in court and you want to be there as a silent partner. And I’d say a silent partner, not an observant of them, because most people don’t want to be observed by their boss. Right. The relationship that you create and cultivate as a supervising attorney and a manager has to be one of trust and evolution so that when you are in your zone of genius, they are watching and learning. And then when they are at bat, when they’re up and it’s their turn, they also feel that they have a silent support system right there with them. That comes from knowing that failure is OK. Ok, which we’re going to talk about in just a moment.

 

Allison Williams: [00:20:54] Ok. Teaching point number two from the story. Don’t take over. This is probably the hardest thing for lawyers to get when you see someone who’s not doing it the way you want. It is so easy to hop in, to take the reins back, to say, oh, I could just do this myself, and then you go do it yourself. But here’s the thing, the problem now is worse than had you just not been there and not even known that there was a problem. Because now that you’re aware of someone’s underperformance and you have taken it over from them, you have eroded their confidence, you have undermined their skill set and their level of belief in themselves. You have missed the golden opportunity to pour into them your support, which, by the way, means something just because you own the law firm. Right. Your support is one of the greatest gifts that you can give to someone who looks up to you and just by virtue of your owning the firm, they look up to you.

 

Allison Williams: [00:21:56] So when you take that away from a person and when you convey to them, I don’t believe in you, I don’t believe you can handle this, I don’t believe you’re capable. That person doesn’t just have to overcome their own internal self-doubt and self-criticism. And lawyers tend to have a high amount of that just by virtue of who we are as people when we come into the profession. But now you’ve exacerbated it because you have now accelerated their negative talk by virtue of implanting some of your own, even if you don’t say anything. Right. Even if you just come in and take it over and say, all right, I got it. Or if you do something that a lot of people will do, which is, listen, we’re going to get there, we’re not there yet, but we’re going to get there let me just do it now. Right? You’re still conveying to them that you don’t believe in them. Better to not delegate a task that they’re not ready for and to not have them have that experience than to delegate and then take it back. The other thing that happens when you take back a task, right, is that you start to embed a cultural idiom. Oh, this is your responsibility. And yes, you own the law firm, so technically, everything that happens in your business is your responsibility. But what you are saying to the person from whom you have taken the task is that your task is my responsibility.

 

Allison Williams: [00:23:16] And that’s how ultimately you get the savior complex, I am the owner of the firm, I am here for everyone, I save you every time you have any issue, any concern, any thought that you don’t have handled I’ll handle that for you. And that’s why you get secretaries that will kind of interrupt you nine times a day, asking you questions that you know, that they know the answers to or that are documented somewhere else, because you have given off the energy, the expectation and the reasonable, reliably consistent message that you are available to take on the shit of other people. When you relief that, when you say this is your responsibility, I will help you, I will coach you, I will support you but ultimately, this is on you. You allow people to rise to the occasion of their best selves. You allow people to give their value to your company and that is how you get highly scalable companies. You don’t get highly scalable companies by taking it all on yourself, wearing all that stress, trying to manage all those details, and then trying to piece them out here or there when you think someone might have a good shot at getting it, OK. You have to be OK with the idea of letting a person fail. And for those that are really triggered by the idea of letting others fail, I want to give you this thought.

 

Allison Williams: [00:24:36] If you have a business and you serve 100 clients, 50 of those clients are yours, 50 of those clients belong to another attorney. You have a certain reach in the world. If it’s 50 clients per attorney and by the way, you know, don’t get triggered, I know that that’s a high load for a lot of practice areas. A lot of practice areas, not so high, immigration 50 not that high. If you’re family law attorney, 50 clients are probably going to run you into an early grave. But you get my point right? So we could pick any number, could be 30 and 30 right? You got 30, Your associate has 30, could be 15 and 15. You’ve got 15, your associate has 15. So pick any number that works for your practice. If you double that number, you have a certain reach, if you triple that number, you have more reach, if you quadruple that number you have more reach. You don’t get to more reach unless you are able to release the necessity in your mind of having all of those details, of all of those cases that are not, quote-unquote, your assigned cases in your mind to be handled by you. If you have to know it all of all things in your business, you will never be able to grow a business. At some point, you are going to skip a detail, miss a fact, overlook something, because there are only so many hours in a day.

 

Allison Williams: [00:25:55] So the other teachable point, the third and final teachable point from the salon story as we call it. Is that failure has to be expected, desired and temporary. Ok, now this is a value system that successful business owners adopt in their businesses. Again, failure is expected, desired, and temporary. So in terms of it being expected, you should go in knowing that failure is going to happen and you should educate your team on the fact that failure is going to happen. The more that they know that, the easier it is for them to say, oh, OK! Right. I didn’t get it perfect because I’m learning, this is a part of the process. If they have that mindset, then there’s less likely to be the fear, the concern, the anxiety that a lot of people have because of many places that they worked before, toxic work environment, family constellation, and a whole host of other environmental factors that are completely outside of your control. When you start to have that experience of your employees saying, yeah, I know I’m allowed to fail, they then release that fear and anxiety that builds up that often, by the way, it makes people less successful at work, right? And if you’re, if you’re riddled with anxiety, you’re probably not being your best self at work. Right. But you are fostering that when you allow a person who has that fear, and most people on some level have that fear, because that’s so to a large extent, the way that the American workplace has been designed. But when people have that fear, their performance is not going to be what you want. So you have to give them the expectations that the way that you are successful in this law firm is that you fail fast, fail often, and get over it and move on until you get to success.

 

Allison Williams: [00:27:58] And next, we talked about failure being desired. Ok? It is desirable that people fail, of course, we don’t want them to fail in a way that puts the law firm at risk of getting sued, or puts as at risk of having a grievance filed by a client, right? That’s not the kind of desire that I’m talking about. But you have to desire that a person learns from their own mistakes. You telling them, hey, you made a mistake, here’s how to do it instead is one form of teaching. It is the least effective mode of teaching. Part of the reason why I became a coach and why I believe so firmly in coaching is that leading a person to the conclusion where they can connect the synapsis on their own solidifies the learning. In a way that they don’t get, that a human will never get by virtue of having it told to them by someone else, because intellectually you can understand something. But until you walk that walk and live that journey, you don’t get it at the same level.

 

Allison Williams: [00:28:58] And then finally, failure has to be temporary and, of course, this is the commonsensical approach that I think most lawyers already understand. Right. You don’t want to hire someone and let them fail when you haven’t set the expectation that failure is temporary because if they come in and they fail and fail and fail and you don’t address their failure. Right? Or worse, you address it by taking it back, then what they get lulled into is a sense of security in their failure. Right. I can be mediocre here and my boss will just do it for me, which, by the way, is part of what happens when employees get decision fatigue. They’ve learned, hey, decisions have to be made. If I can’t make them, I’ll just go to the boss, I’m dumping on the boss, the boss will decide. Right? So you have to get into a habit, even with your high-performance employees, of not taking it back, but as they are failing, educating them on the fact that this is temporary. Right? There are markers to meet on the journey to success. Now, before you get completely overwhelmed by that statement and say, oh, my God, I have to define markers on failure to success for every task that they have. That can take forever. It’ll be somewhat intuitive in the job. So if you have a file clerk and the file clerk is filing documents and he or she files a document in the wrong place and you catch it, then when you bring them in, you can walk them through a process of identifying what they should have done, what they did do, what they should have done, and ultimately what they will do next time.

 

Allison Williams: [00:30:24] And then you can stand over them while they actually take a similar document, find the right place, file it in the right location. But when it’s time to actually walk through what this looks like, you can say, OK, by the end of this week, I want you to be intimately familiar with this type of document to make sure it goes in the right place. So here’s what we’re going to do. I’m going to take this type of document in five or six different files, and I’m going to give it to you, I’m going to ask you to put it in the right location and then once you’ve done that, I want you to report back to me, OK? That takes very little time. That can be something, by the way, that your paralegal does. This does not have to require you but once that person gets the idea that there is a benchmark for success and everything is progressive in our knowledge, because knowledge is cumulative. The person can ultimately evolve to the place where they start to see opportunities for them to grow and learn and they start to see the lack of failure as not just success, but proof that failure had a purpose, proof that failure was beneficial to them. All right. So today we have talked about letting others fail, and this is one of those key areas of mindset evolution for the successful solo and small law firm attorney.

 

Allison Williams: [00:31:40] So we’re at the end of our episode but before you go, we are going to be celebrating our one hundredth podcast episode on September 24th. I can’t believe we’re here already. I can’t believe we got to one hundred episodes. I remember I launched the podcast in February of 2020, not knowing coronavirus was even a thing and certainly not in preparation or contemplation of the, the quarantine that happened, but kind of fortuitous timing. Right? And so I originally thought we were going to do every other week. That’s how we started. And then we got to weekly and now we’re at twice weekly and I absolutely love spending my time with you guys. And I’m so excited that we’re getting one hundred episodes. But here’s the thing, right? We’re excited about this milestone, and we’re really grateful that you’ve been on the journey with us. For those of you that are newer to the podcast, you’re here now. For those of you that have been with me from day one, thank you so much. Thank you for all of you for tuning in and being on this amazing journey with us. So as a special way to celebrate with you all, we’re going to be raffling off three Law Firm Mentor beach towels, these are really, really cool swag that we gave out to our membership for our last retreat. It was actually on legal sales. And so the beach towels are really, really plush. They’re beautiful towels and we’re going to be wrapping them up. So all you have to do to enter our contest in order to get access to having one of those big towels, is leave us an honest review on your listening app of choice. It can be on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, I Heart Radio, Pandora. Like we’re kind of everywhere at this point or on Google. Right? You can hit us up wherever you’re listening to your podcast. And once you leave that review, text us a screenshot of your review along with the word anniversary. Now, you’re going to text that to our text number nine oh eight, two nine two, three five two four, and you will be entered to win. Don’t worry if you missed that number, I’m going to say it one more time, but we’re also going to put it into the show notes. The text number is nine oh eight, two nine two, three five two four, and you’ll be entered to win. So we’re going to pick three winners at random and announce them on our one hundredth episode on September 24th. So you don’t want to miss it. We’re really excited to do this contest and we’re really excited to have you as our listening audience for the Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast. Everyone, I’m Allison Williams, and I’ll see you on the next episode.

Allison Williams: [00:34:23] Thank you for tuning in to The Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast. To learn more about today’s guests and take advantage of the resources mentioned, check out our show notes. And if you own a solo or small law firm and are looking for guidance, advice or simply support on your journey to create a law firm that runs without you, join us in the Law Firm Mentor Movement Free Facebook group. There you can access our free trainings on improving collections in law firms, meeting billable hours and join the movement of thousands of law firm owners across the country who want to crush chaos in their law firms and make more money. I’m Allison Williams, your Law Firm Mentor. Have a great day!