Taking the Mystery Out of Social Media Marketing

Allison Williams: [00:00:11] Hi everybody, it’s Allison Williams here, your Law Firm Mentor. Law Firm Mentor is a business coaching service for solo and small law firm attorneys. We help you grow your revenues, crush chaos in business and make more money.

 

Allison Williams: [00:00:25] Ann Brennan is the owner of ASMM Digital Marketing and host of the Small Business Connections podcast and has a passion for marketing, but she lives with a purpose of stopping suicide. It was this purpose that led Ann to create Burgers and Bands for Suicide Prevention, a nonprofit that is opening the conversation about mental illness and erasing the stigma that surrounds it. Ann has her own show ASMM Digital Marketing, and it’s a wonderful resource of information about marketing. And I had a lot of fun talking to Ann because I had the pleasure of being on the Small Business Connections podcast and in preparation for my being on that show, I actually checked out several of her podcast episodes, which are housed on her YouTube channel. And I found that a lot of her marketing was a little bit different than what you usually would expect from a marketer. It was very, it was very customizable and very unique. And the other thing that I thought was really cool about Ann is that she actually has, she knows that everyone’s not going to go out and hire a digital marketing agency. So while she does have a digital marketing agency, she also has created a series of courses on, on her personal website where you can get information about do it yourself social media marketing.

 

Allison Williams: [00:01:43] So we talk about some of the highlights of social media marketing, in particular, the need for consistency. We talk about how everyone’s on social media. There’s a discussion in there about CDS and CDS is not actually what you think it is, at least in this context. So definitely want to listen out for that. And the do it yourself resource is at ASMM campus dotcom. So for those of you that just want to start doing something, of course, here at Law Firm Mentor, we always recommend that you choose the best strategy, not any strategy, but the best strategy for you to get your goals achieved. However, if there’s any reason why you have resistance around hiring an agency, you aren’t sure you want to make the commitment. You aren’t sure that it’s going to pay off for you. This is something that you can start to learn how to do and do consistently so that you’ll actually get traction in your business. So without further ado. Ann Brennan. 

 

Allison Williams: [00:02:40] Ann Brennan. Thank you so much for being with us on the Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:02:44] Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to it.

 

Allison Williams: [00:02:48] Yes. I’m happy to have you on the show. I had the pleasure of being on your show. And I of course, before I went on your show, I studied a lot of what your amazing content is about. And you talk about one of those topics that I think is near and dear to my heart as a business growth strategist, and that is marketing, but in particular social media marketing. So that’s what we’re going to talk about today. And I want to start by asking you, why should anyone who’s a business owner bother with social media marketing?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:03:17] Before I answer that, I want to say something about to the fact that you looked at the podcast beforehand. The fact that you studied, you looked at the content. There’s a really great thing for any of your listeners out there who are thinking about going on a podcast. Do that first. It is such a huge way to help your your host to do better with your social media, to make it all run together. If you don’t do that homework ahead of time, you can’t make any of that stuff work behind the scenes. Right. So that’s the first thing. I really appreciate you doing that. Why should you bother with social media? Because that’s where everybody is. Billions of people, not millions. Billions of people are on social media. But it also makes you seem more credible. If you are doing social media and you are putting yourself out there and show it, not only educating your customers about what you do, but educating them about your industry. So you’re giving them something. So that’s huge. That part is huge. You’re not just advertising, but you’re creating a community around your brand. It’s the only place that you can go, first of all, for free, most of the time and actually talk to your customers. It goes a long way. If you can get yourself out there, they can see who you are. You can respond if they like something. You can respond if they say something. It’s a huge way for a small business specifically to grow their business because you’re reaching the people who are interested in what you do.

 

Allison Williams: [00:04:47] Yeah, you know, I think that is such a remarkable point, the fact that we are all kind of on social media. And I think it was long before covid. Right. We kind of we were already starting to consume content differently and social media really accelerated that that growth curve. But on the other hand, there’s also that short attention span that comes with social media. Right. So what would you say to somebody who says, I don’t know if that’s what I want to be doing. Because I don’t want to talk in soundbites or, you know, I’m not sure if I want to, like, start reducing myself down to like, you know, just that teachable moment. I really want to focus on the big picture of of what I offer in my business.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:05:26] Well, so what I would say is that it’s you’re right, you don’t want to talk in soundbites, but you have to have a place to put your content, right? So you create this beautiful podcast. I do the same thing. I create a podcast. Well, am I just going to put it out there that one time and hope people come and listen to it? No. I’m going to take it, I’m going to break it into bits and I’m going to share those bits on social media. If I have a blog, I’m going to take that and I’m going to break it into bits and I’m going to share that on social media so that then I have a ton of content. Now, the problem is when people have no content and they want to be on social media. Then they’re not saying anything. But if you’ve got a blog or a podcast or or long, long form writing of any sort, you can break that up and serve it out in bits and pieces and also lead them back to where that is in the first place, which is probably your website. Right? So it’s a content distribution system, is what it is.

 

Allison Williams: [00:06:27] Yeah. So CDS. Content Distribution center System. I don’t believe, we don’t usually hear CDS associated with that, but I think that’s like the perfect acronym. Right? 

 

Ann Brennan: [00:06:38] It is. Absolutely. So.

 

Allison Williams: [00:06:40] So I love that you say breaking into bits because I think as soon as I hear that I think, oh my God, I need to be a professional marketer to be able to do that because I don’t know all of the technology and all of the structure and how to how to make it into something that is marketable, something that’s going to be consumed by the public. So what would you say to somebody if they ask you the question, do I need to have a social media marketing agency or a company in order to get on social media?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:07:06] Well, if I’m honest, you don’t. But if you want to do it effectively, you do. Right? You, if you if you have the time, if your business is brand new and I tell people this all the time. If your business is brand new, take the time every morning. We’ll even guide you. I actually have a campus. ASMM Campus dot com. You can go and take classes on how to do it yourself, right. If you would have a brand new business, you have two or three clients. You have some extra time. Yes, do it yourself. It’s when you start building and you realize, oh my gosh. It’s been three weeks since I posted, then, you know, I really do have to have somebody and that’s what happens. People will post for three weeks and they’ll post on a regular basis for three weeks and then they’ll stop and then they have to start all over. And it is starting all over. It’s a lot like losing weight, right? You lose weight and and it takes forever to lose. And then you gain back five pounds in a day and it takes you forever to lose that five pounds. It doesn’t just go off in a day. Same thing happens with social media. If you stop posting, you have to rebuild. After a week, you’re going to have to rebuild what you already have out there if you don’t continuously post. And that’s where a social media marketing company comes in.

 

Allison Williams: [00:08:22] Yeah, and I think probably consistency is the one thing that most people dealing with social media would struggle with because we’re so busy running our businesses. We don’t really have time to just be sitting and hanging out on social media and to make sure that we’re developing a strategy around that.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:08:37] Absolutely. The other thing, though, I do want to say is you could hire a virtual assistant to just post. And we, this has been something that’s on our minds lately because we have to say to people, oh, we’re not virtual assistants. That’s not what we do. We’re a marketing agency. So what we do is we sit down with you and help you flesh out what your brand is, because most people don’t know their brand. We’ll help you figure that out and then we’ll help you come up with a strategy. What are those things that you’re always saying? I wish people knew. Right? I wish people knew this is what we specialized in. I wish people knew that we have a personal background in this, that we’re not just divorce attorneys. We’re divorce attorneys who have all gone through our divorces ourselves and started this practice so that we could be more empathetic. Right? So we’ll help them find those what people should know moments and will help them create that.

 

Allison Williams: [00:09:31] Yeah, well, and I love that your business is actually focused on, it sounds like not just giving the content, but actually helping to consult with the professional and guide them through a process of understanding themselves better. There’s a lot of us simply, we don’t know what our brand is. Right. If you were an average lawyer, you know, what are you in business? They would say I’m a divorce lawyer or a criminal defense lawyer or a personal injury lawyer. They wouldn’t necessarily know the driver that’s going to be the connective piece between them and their audience.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:10:02] Right, exactly. Or who their audience even is. A lot of times I’ll have that. I actually I’m working with an attorney right now who is great. She says, I work with the LGBT community. That’s my audience. And some people are. Oh, that’s too small. Well, no. I mean, it’s not. It’s a pretty big community and she specializes in that. So that makes it easy for her. Right? We know exactly who we’re aiming our ads towards. We know exactly who we’re aiming our content towards. And it’s different than another, a different couple. Right? It’s just different. So you do have to know who that audience is and we help you find that as well.

 

Allison Williams: [00:10:39] Yeah, well, that’s really important that you said that too. Because I think that is a big assumption that people make that if they niche down too small, that they’re going to, they’re not going to have enough market to sell to. And one of the things we love to say here at Law Firm Mentor is riches in the niches. Right? So… 

 

Ann Brennan: [00:10:54] Right. Exactly.

 

Allison Williams: [00:10:55] If you’re the big fish in the small pond, you’re going to occupy that space. You’re going to be able to actually market easier than if you are just one of the masses that sell to the masses. 

 

Ann Brennan: [00:11:06] Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because when somebody says, oh, I can sell to anybody, well, then you’re selling to nobody. You’re marketing to nobody if you’re trying to sell to anybody.

 

Allison Williams: [00:11:16] Right. Right. So let’s talk about self awareness. Because when you talk about this idea of helping people to discover their brand or build their brand and a lot of people don’t know, I would imagine that you have to start with a place of understanding yourself, so that you can help someone like you to actually ferret out what is the appropriate brand for a business owner. Talk to us about how you would assist with that and the role of self awareness in this in this discussion.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:11:42] Yeah. So, no, you’re spot on. Their self-awareness is so important because especially with a small law firm. If you’re looking at a small law firm, one or two people, even up to five people, that first person who started it, they have to know who they are in order to know what their core values are for the company. Because your core values personally are going to run through the company. For us, our core values, are gratitude and authenticity. It has, when I first started this business, I thought, oh, I’ve got to talk in acronyms. I’ve got to use acronyms so that people think that I know this business. And it sounds, I sound super smart. But instead I was like, wait a second. That’s not who I am. I’m not a I live in a house that we have a ton of sailors who come through this house because we work, we’re here in Annapolis. So the midshipmen are here, right? They come through and they’re always using these acronyms. And I say, no, not at my house. Nope you’re not using those. So in what we do, we’re authentic. We tell you that SEO is search engine optimization, which really just means that’s a way for Google to find you.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:12:47] That is all that is. Everybody gets all tied up in the SEO part without realizing it’s just how are we going to get Google to find you? Right. So that authenticity runs through every single thing we do. We talk analytics. We’re like, how are you doing? What are your numbers? What are people, who are actually looking at what you’re doing? We’re breaking it down in a way that’s much more human. And that’s our whole business model is to be much more human. Right. And then gratitude. That part shows through everything that we do. We’re so grateful for every single one of our clients. And for you, when you find those core values and you realize, oh, this is, these are the, this is the foundation my business is built on. You can’t do that without it. You’ve got to have those core values to build the foundation that then you build the rest of the business on. And that’s how you’re going to be stronger. It’s how you’re going to create a marketing plan as well.

 

Allison Williams: [00:13:40] Yeah. And I would imagine that it probably is easier to connect with people when you are just putting out what you already are instead of trying to come up with a gimmick or a tag line or the acronyms that make you sound like you somehow know more of what you’re doing than you actually already know.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:13:56] Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it’s easier too for your staff, because then they go, oh, well, that’s what she’s all about. Oh, well she just said that. That’s all right because she’s authentic, if that’s what it is. Right. Or whatever your core value is, that’s really important to the person who owns the company. And then that means it’s going to run through everything they do. After a while. You can also bring in your team and say, what do you think our core values are? What are the things that you see? Right? And we ask that of our clients, not just of our client themselves, the person who hires us, but their team, we start asking them those questions. What are the core values you see? Because sometimes you’re missing it.

 

Allison Williams: [00:14:37] Yeah, well, you know, it’s interesting that you mention that. One of the one of the guests that we’ve had on the podcast before, her name is Kathy D’Agostino. And Kathy, actually, she came to my law firm and she walked us through using the Core Values Index to actually assess what are our core values. Are we living our core values? And so we have certain things that we say that they are. And there were a lot more that people had picked up on just from working here that we hadn’t been really promoting, but that were very clearly a part of the culture. So it’s very true that you live what you are, whether you’re intending to or not, right?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:15:09] Absolutely. Absolutely. People will say, oh, our our core value is compassion. And but then you’ve known them for a while and you’re like, I’m not sure that’s really your core value. You might want it to be, but that’s going to show up the first time you really lose your temper with a client and they’re going to know that’s really not your core value. So what is your core value?. Maybe. Maybe it’s perfection. Right. If you lose your temper really easy because something didn’t get done right, then perfection might be your core value. Let’s focus on that. You want it to be perfect, right?

 

Allison Williams: [00:15:42] Yeah. And there’s a certain level of honesty that you have to have with yourself in order to to not put out some fakery that you want want your business to be when it really isn’t. Right?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:15:52] Absolutely. Somebody told me that whatever it is, just don’t make it money. And I’m like, but that’s not true either, because depending on what you’re doing, if money is your core value, there are people out there who also share that core value and they’re going to want to hire you because they’re like, I am all about the green. That’s all I want. Right. So you’ll find people who will be there for you.

 

Allison Williams: [00:16:15] Yeah, absolutely. Now, and you said something earlier that I was really intrigued by. You said that you want to help people to be more human. What does that mean exactly?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:16:25] So people put stuff on social media. And it’s funny because I think attorneys are, it’s really hard for attorneys because there’s this line you have to you have to toe. Right. But you want education out there. You want to educate customers. But you don’t want to be… or clients. But you don’t want to be so stiff that you’re not human. Right? You’re not reacting. You’re creating stuff that the person on the other end is like, what? Oh, I got to go take a nap now. Right. You want to write it in a way that’s going to tell to a person, because that’s who you’re talking to. People will say, oh, I’m a business to business company, but we’re always no matter what we’re doing, we are always dealing with a human being on the other end. So what does that a human being want to hear and what do you want to make them feel? And that’s important. So being more human, you can’t make somebody feel something unless you’re more human. Unless you’re creating a human persona on this end that’s talking to the person on that end.

 

Allison Williams: [00:17:26] Yeah, I think that’s an excellent point. And I think there is, we’re kind of moving in that direction. I’ve seen more and more over the past, I’d say maybe five years, more of the untouched, you know, person with no makeup on walking on the beach with their cell phone as opposed to the staged, perfect, pristine background, manufactured video, manufactured text. You know, have you in your role working with people, with social media, have you actually seen the shift? Have you been a part of helping people to engineer the shift? Or is it something that’s more individual based on industry?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:18:00] I think it’s probably based on industry, quite honestly. But I do think people are generally moving this way. And I think it’s it’s not just I wish I had come up with the more human idea. Mark Schaefer is the first person I heard say it and I thought, that’s what we’ve been trying to tell people. Right. But it is, it’s completely true that if you are just putting things out there that that are either boring or not making somebody feel something, then you really aren’t using social media right. We yeah. We say it’s social media. Everybody focuses on the media part. The important part is the social. How can you make your social media posts more social? How can you make it something that people will interact with? You know, something… I’m just kind of off the top of my head. If you posted something and said, how what what fears do you have for your children and your upcoming divorce? Then you could respond. Right? They might come back and say, well, I fear we’re not going to be able to find a way to do this equitably. I fear that the arguments I have with my husband are going to affect my children and we can respond with comments that help. So maybe. All right. That’s a great point. Arguing with your husband in front of your children maybe is not the best idea. Have you thought about family therapy to go along with your divorce. Even though you’re getting divorced doesn’t mean you won’t still be a family. Family therapy might work for you. That’s a really human response. Right? That’s a really human thing to say. So look for those more human responses, but also the questions to get people who who will then talk to you.

 

Allison Williams: [00:19:43] Yes, I think that’s an excellent point, because I see so many agencies posting content that just falls flat like it, it has a pretty picture, right? The perfect little stock fat, stock photo of a family. Walking on, holding hands, singing Kumbaya theoretically. Right. And then the copy is, you know, have you gone through a divorce? Here’s what divorce one on one is. If you have a question, call us here. And it’s just such a benign, unemotional, uninvolved, disengaged, disconnected type of communication. So when you say be more human in your marketing, I would imagine that some people really struggle with that, because there is that question of how do I put myself out there in a way that engages people without necessarily going into too intimate a space or. (Right.) Or maybe encroaching upon terrain that people are not necessarily as open to to talk about. What do you, what do you say to that?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:20:39] So I think you do you have to think about what your customer, who your customer is, right? If your customer is a buttoned up businessman, he might not respond to that sort of thing to something that’s more touchy feely. So you kind of have to figure out what that is. What does he want? He wants to feel smart, right. So what can you give him to help him feel smart? What is the information you can give him that makes him say at the next dinner party? You know what I just learned? Right. And then he comes back to you because he wants more of that information that made him look so smart at that dinner party. So it doesn’t always have to be touchy feely. It has to be what is going to make that person you’re talking to feel a certain way. And that’s where it’s so important that you’re working with a marketing company so you can figure out who is that person. Right, who you are. That’s I’m not talking to a bunch of people who are going through a divorce. I’m talking or I’m not talking to a bunch of people who need an attorney because they just got a DUI. Right? 

 

Ann Brennan: [00:21:42] You know. And that’s another one. If you think about the DUI, we know it’s embarrassing. We know you did not mean to get behind the wheel of that car. You have never done that before. And suddenly here you are facing one of the most embarrassing moments of your life. Let us help. Right. And so do it in a way that appeals to what’s going on with them, because. God. Yeah. Oh, my God. How embarrassing. Right? I just got, I got a DUI in my neighborhood for crying out loud. They are seeing this. Oh, my God. What are they going to think of me? We want to help them fill that and realize, oh, we understand that. And other people don’t necessarily. They’re judging you instead. Right? We’re not judging you. We understand that you didn’t mean to do that. Right? Right. So how can you come up with that content, that tone that’s going to hit the person in the way they needed to be talked to right now?

 

Allison Williams: [00:22:36] Yeah, so it seems like even though it’s remarkably simple, it doesn’t sound like it’s that easy, because if I’m if I’m hearing your message, you’re telling me to communicate in a way that connects with the person with whom I’m communicating, my audience. Right? But you have to be so clever that you got to know who your audience is. You have to appeal to your audience with the brand that you’re creating. You have to be more human in the way that you convey that message to whomever it is that’s going to receive it. And you have to do that in a way that toes the professional line. And I would imagine that integrating all of those skills is not just something that you figured out. It’s something that is your professional discipline.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:23:14] Absolutely. Well, and you forgot to add. And you have to do it consistently.

 

Allison Williams: [00:23:21] Yes, I am. I am the queen of not being consistent. That’s why we absolutely have marketers on our team that deal just with making sure that things go out on a regular basis on a schedule in front of the …

 

Ann Brennan: [00:23:35] Absolutely. Yeah, because it’s so easy. I say it all the time. People are like, oh, I’m going to hire somebody in-house. And I’m like, are is that going to be their dedicated job? Because if it’s not, the next time you walk by and you see them on Facebook, you’re going to go, don’t you have something better for you to do? It’s just the way it works.

 

Allison Williams: [00:23:54] Probably not the thing to say to your marketer. Why are you on Facebook?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:23:58] Right, exactly. They’re on Facebook because they’re marketing your business and there’s a lot more to it than just creating posts and putting them out there. You also have to find ways to reach the people who you’re trying to reach on social media. So yeah. There’s a lot to it. But not everybody understands that when they’re first doing social media.

 

Allison Williams: [00:24:17] Yeah. So there is so much to integrate. And this is like a, this is one of those areas that we could literally riff on, like all day every day for probably a week and not and not even scratch the surface of all there is to cover with the way to effectively handle digital marketing. But I do want to ask you if you had to encapsulate what would be the most important thing about digital marketing? What would it be?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:24:41] I’m going to be one hundred percent honest. Consistency. If you can only post, if you’re like, I don’t, I’m not going to hire an agency. I don’t have the money. I don’t have the time. I just don’t want to hire an agency yet. Then at least post. And post every day. Consistency. When you look at the algorithms, everybody talks about algorithms. How does Facebook decide who to show your post to? The one thing we can agree on, most people can’t figure out exactly how it works, but the one thing we can agree on is that consistency is the number one thing they’re looking for. If you’re posting every single day, you’re going to eventually start showing up. But it can’t be every day for three weeks. It has to be every day for a good year before you start going. Oh, now they’re showing me to people. It does take a while. And we encourage you to do things like boosting and stuff like that. But just boosting is not going to get you there. You have to post every single day. They want to see you do that. And Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and all of them want to see to that.

 

Allison Williams: [00:25:49] So there’s so much really to take into account when you’re looking at a comprehensive social media marketing strategy. And I think that and you’ve touched upon so many golden nuggets here about not just how to do it, but how to do it well and how to do it in a way that’s going to consistently get you in front of the audience that you want to be in front of. But I love that you mentioned earlier the ASMM campus dotcom, where somebody could actually learn some of this if they if they weren’t inclined to work with an agency. But if they did want to learn more about particularly working with your company on how to get their social media marketing strategy and practice up leveled quite a bit, how would they get a hold of you?

 

Ann Brennan: [00:26:29] Well, I’m going to give you an easy way because a ASMM digital dotcom is how most people will go and look for us, but they always end up misspelling it. So if you look at ANN. A N N markets dotcom, so ANN markets dotcom, you’ll find us. It’ll go to the same website, give you the same information. And one thing that I should tell you is that one of the reasons we’re so good at figuring out how to make somebody feel something isn’t just because we’re great marketers, it’s because we’re all moms. And I think that mom empathy comes through in everything we do, it really does. We’ve all got the we’re all mothers and we have all cared about our children and we care about the business of who we work with the same way. So we really do put that extra bit of mom-ness in all the stuff that we do. I think it helps a lot.

 

Allison Williams: [00:27:20] There you go. All right, Ann Brennan of ASMM Marketing. You guys heard it here, how to get a hold of Ann. Ann markets dotcom as well as ASMM digital dotcom. And if you’re interested in learning more about Ann, I don’t just highly recommend that you check out the resources that we’ve referenced here that are going to be in the show notes. But I absolutely love her YouTube channel. And I found the YouTube channel actually, as I said before, when I was when I was going to be a guest on her show. And like, there’s just there’s so many really, really strong, content rich, very helpful interviews there. And Ann, of course, has such a lovely personality. She just kind of sparkles on screen. So you get the chance to see her. And I want to invite you all to check out those resources. And Ann, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

 

Ann Brennan: [00:28:06] Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. This was really, really fun.

 

Allison Williams: [00:28:09] All right, everyone, as usual, I’m Allison Williams, your Law Firm Mentor. Have a wonderful day.

Allison Williams: [00:28:29] Thank you for tuning in to the Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast. To learn more about today’s guests and take advantage of the resources mentioned, check out our show notes. And if you own a solo or small law firm and are looking for guidance, advice or simply support on your journey to create a law firm that runs without you, join us in the Law Firm Mentor Movement free Facebook group. There, you can access our free trainings on improving collections in law firms, meeting billable hours, and join the movement of thousands of law firm owners across the country who want to crush chaos in their law firm and make more money. I’m Allison Williams, your Law Firm Mentor. Have a great day.