How to Use the Revenue Roadmap to Attract Clients

Allison Williams: [00:00:11] Hi everybody, it’s Allison Williams here, your Law Firm Mentor. Law Firm Mentor is a business coaching service for solo and small law firm attorneys. We help you grow your revenues, crush chaos in business and make more money. 

Allison Williams: [00:00:25] Dave Lorenzo is the guy that can share all the business inside success secrets. Want to close the deal in 60 seconds? Dave’s the guy. Want to open the door to a Fortune 500 CEO? Dave’s the guy. Want to make more money and get home on time for dinner? Dave is definitely the guy. And that’s the reason why I was so excited to have Dave on the podcast. So I had the occasion to meet Dave actually through just a random connection. And he is such a wealth of knowledge about sales. And I know that a lot of lawyers, when we hear the S word, it becomes this dirty thing that we don’t want to talk about and we like to think of what we do as legal consulting and not, quote unquote sales. But the beautiful thing about my conversation with Dave is that he was actually able to give me a framework for how we can be more successful at selling legal services without the, I guess, the negative connotation that comes with selling. And because he has personally worked with lawyers, he actually understands that there is a distinction between selling to the public a professional service versus selling something that’s more of a commodity, an actual product or even a service that’s not in a highly regulated industry. So I’m really excited to bring Dave to the show. And I want you guys to really listen in for how you can convert your legal consultations into a sales process and how Dave has a lot of resources that can help you with that. So without further ado, Dave Lorenzo. 

Allison Williams: [00:02:03] Dave Lorenzo, welcome to The Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:02:07] Hey, Allison, thanks for having me. Let’s crush some chaos.

Allison Williams: [00:02:11] Yeah. So we’re talking about my favorite topic. We’re talking about sales. And lawyers are almost notoriously averse to the topic of sales. We talk about intake, we talk about consultations, but we don’t really talk about sales. But you have both a phenomenal book on sales and you also have a podcast, Inside Buzz, talking about sales. So we’re going to go deep into that subject today. So the first thing I want to ask you about is business generation for lawyers. So if you’re working with a lawyer or talking to a lawyer about how they can grow their ultimate book of business, how do you recommend they go about it from the perspective of someone who helps with sales?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:02:48] Right. The first thing I think we need to do is we need to, you know, for years working around lawyers, I would whisper the word sales or not use the word sales at all. So the first thing we need to do is, I need to make sure everybody just takes a deep breath and relaxes. Our view of sales is that selling is helping people, right? Selling is helping people in exchange for financial compensation. And we call it business development. We call it origination. We call it a whole host of things. We never call it sales because we’re supposed to be better than that. Right. Lawyers are supposed to be experts and they are. And they’re supposed to be recognized as experts. So your question, what’s the first thing a lawyer should do? Claim that mantle of expertise. So find a place to write on a specific topic that your ideal client would love to read or find a place to speak. Now, in a pandemic, it’s tough. You’re not going to be able to go out and get in-person speaking engagements, but you can do 20 minute webinars and offer them to the voluntary bar associations. Essentially warm up your expert status by getting in front of friendly audiences with publishing or with some sort of topic that resonates with, like a voluntary bar association so that you can be comfortable being an expert. That’s how you claim the mantle of thought leadership, and that’s how you can leverage this feeling that you have, which is true, that you’re an expert and you don’t need to go out and knock on doors and thrust yourself in people’s faces.

Allison Williams: [00:04:27] Yeah. So the not knocking on doors and the not thrusting yourself in people’s faces. I think a lot of lawyers are actually relieved that we are so restricted in being able to do that, because a lot of people think of sales as kind of like that pushy used car salesman who’s going to order you to buy something that you don’t want. But you really seem to have a more holistic approach to creating a desire in the person that they ultimately would want to work with you.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:04:51] Yeah, you’re you need to be magnetic and you need to draw people to you. So along those lines, especially here in Florida, you’re right. We’re 100 percent restrictive. There’s there’s really nothing you can do to go out and quote unquote, solicit business. What you can do is, you can make sure that everybody who knows you knows what you know. So let me say that again. Everyone who knows you must know what you know.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:05:17] So go to the relative that you have that is the least technological, technologically savvy person. Your your Aunt Betty or your grandma and say, grandma, do you know what I do? And she’ll say, Oh sure, I know what you do. You’re just like those people on Law and Order. You go to court and, you know, you complain about the judge and then you go back to your office and you drink scotch. Right. Well, you’ve got to explain to granny that, well, actually, I’m a transactional lawyer and I help people make deals in their business. Or actually I’m a family law attorney. When people want to get divorced, if they have kids, that’s kind of the area where I focus. Or actually I’m an intellectual property attorney. What that means is if somebody has a phrase or something they want to protect so other people can’t steal it, I help them.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:06:04] Everyone, you know, needs to know what you know and what you do. Once you’ve accomplished that, we can then take the next step and you’ll be amazed at how that can help you get one or two new referrals a month. Think about that. If you just went around and told everybody who already knew you, liked you and trusted you exactly what you did, who your ideal client was and why people worked with you, those three things, what you did, who your ideal client was and why they worked with you. Everybody, you know. Two hundred people, they all can do that for you. You’re going to get at least one new referral a month.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:06:42] So start there. You don’t have to be some sort of Zig Ziglar sales guru to grow your practice. Just make sure everybody can describe what you do and what makes you different.

Allison Williams: [00:06:53] Yeah, so sexy stuff there. Now you’re talking about going around and meeting people, whether it’s meeting people on the virtual stage or in, you know, in the non pandemic times going out in person to person meeting. But I think there are a lot of people that would say that they are introverts or there are even some people that are like, I just don’t like people that much. Right. (Right.) So, like, what if you are one of those people that is not a people person? How do you as a person who either dislikes people, hates people, or is simply just not a people person, how do you use that kind of strategy to be effective at building?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:07:26] Yeah, that’s that’s such a good question. I teach a whole seminar called How to Be Great at Networking even if you hate people. And we cross out the even and we put especially if you hate people. So here’s the here’s the formula for introverts who want to connect with people. When you’re connecting with a new person, let’s say, all right, we’ll talk about people that you know. People that you know are easier. So let’s talk about new people first. You’re meeting a new person for the first time. Hi. My name is. What’s your name?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:07:56] Right. If you don’t say to the other person, what’s your name? There’s a fifty fifty shot they’re not going to tell you. So what’s your name. They tell you what their name is. It’s great to meet you. How do you how do you occupy your days? OK, we sometimes use the phrase what do you do for work? Here’s the thing. If you’re if you’re in a more social setting, how do you fill your days is a better question, because if somebody is a mom, they work really hard. You don’t want to say, what do you do for work? They’re going to say, well, I’m a mom. I mean, how do you fill your days? How do you occupy your time that gives them the option to tell you about something personal or tell you about something business. How do you fill your time? How do you occupy your days? Oh, you know, I own a hardware store. Oh. Now, the next line is critical. No matter what they say, they could say I’m an insurance actuary. They could say I’m a garbage man. They could say I clean sewers. You say, that’s fascinating. How did you get into that? And then you’re off to the races.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:08:54] You don’t have to say another word. 90 percent of the time they’re going to tell you their origin story. They’re going to tell you how they got into what they’re into. And you’re going to be able to pick up on a couple of cues and ask a couple of questions. At this point, I like to have the people that that I’m teaching the seminar to sit back and go, wow, it sounds like you’re really successful.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:09:16] How do you, how are things going right now or how do you plan on finishing the year or who’s your best client? They’re going to tell you. And then you’re going to look for an opening for you to introduce them to somebody or for you to connect them with someone who could even in a small, tangential way, help them personally or help their business. When you see that opening, you’re going to go, hmm, you know, I think I might, I actually, I might have somebody, I might have somebody who can help you. Would you like me to introduce you to? And then you’re going to tell them who you’re going to introduce them to. Now, on the off chance. And this happens about a third of the time, on the off chance, they raise an issue where you can personally solve their problem. It’s in your wheelhouse. You can actually get some business here. They’re going to say, you know, I’m really struggling with this issue. My neighbor’s fence is on my property. I really like my neighbor. And I asked him to move his fence and he won’t do it. I’m not really sure what the next step is. And you happen to be a real estate attorney and you specialize in zoning or you specialize in real estate matters in that particular area, you’re going to say, hmm, you know, would you like some help with that?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:10:35] And they’re going to go, what? Would I like some help with that? What do you mean who’s going to help me? And you say, well, you know, I’ve done some of these issues before. I handle real estate work and this type of issue, we can gently approach your neighbor and explain what the law is. And, you know, I can help you work something out there or maybe even I could coach you behind the scenes if you don’t want to come out and say that you’re working with a lawyer. That’s the trick right there. All we did, we asked maybe three or four questions, and then they got to a point where we could provide some value, either by introducing them to someone or if they mentioned something that is in our wheelhouse, we’ll say, hey, would you like some help with that? Look, if they say no, they don’t want help, that’s fine. You finish your drink and you go find somebody else to talk to.

Allison Williams: [00:11:23] Oh, my God, Dave. So that is just brilliant. I think that is the best encapsulation of a networking conversation for the introverted lawyer or even just somebody who doesn’t know how to do it without sounding like they’re pushing or promoting in a way that’s somewhat inauthentic. I just, I love that.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:11:40] So let me give you the back story, Allison. The deal, the way this came to be, right, was, my wife would drag me to these events, like I moved to Florida from New York in two thousand and seven and my wife said, we need to meet people. We’re going to go out… We joined like every chamber and we would go to all these events. And, you know, they’re awful. Those events are terrible. And maybe some people like them. I hate them. So my best friend would be either the bartender or the buffet attendant. And I would hang around with them and I would be the first person to get another drink or the first person to get the good food when it came out of the kitchen.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:12:16] And I had to figure out a way to connect with people that made me comfortable. So over dozens of events, I worked out this script and it became so easy, it became so natural. And when I told other people about it and they started using it, they were like, wow, that really works well. So that’s how that came to be. I hate those things just as much as anybody, and I had to figure out a way to get through it.

Allison Williams: [00:12:39] Yeah, well, it sounds like you didn’t just figure it out. You figured it out in a way that isn’t a script necessarily, but gives you the talking points that you need to have a real conversation with somebody that doesn’t feel like the forced, this is me. What do you do for a living? This is what I do for a living. So I think a lot of people are going to get value out of that.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:12:58] Allison, here’s another thing. Just as an aside, once you meet that person, then if you have a good conversation with them. The other thing I love to do at those events and as the pandemic starts to wind down, we’re going to start having those events again. I like to take the person I just met and bring them around and introduce them to other people as if they were a long lost friend. Because what happens is, you want to talk about a way to cement the relationship. I introduce that person to three other people who I just met at the event. Now, those three people and that other person think I’m the best person in the world because I’m helping people connect. And what am I doing? I’m doing exactly what makes me comfortable. I’m taking the focus off of me, and that’s exactly what I want. I don’t want anybody focused on me. I want people talking to each other. And they’re going to go, that guy who was just here, he’s so great that he introduced us. You know, he’s a great conversationalist. I, I asked for questions of one person and then introduced him to two other people. And I’m a great conversationalist. That’s what you’re looking for.

Allison Williams: [00:13:59] Yeah. And, you know, you’re really triggering the law of reciprocity. Right? So as soon as you do something nice for someone, they’re ingratiated to you, or at least that is the belief. And then they’re going to be looking for ways to help you. And so you can definitely get more more traction that way. So I want to talk about your book, because one of the things that I have the pleasure of doing as the as the host of the podcast, I meet a lot of different types of people, and sales is one of my favorite topics altogether. But you have a book that actually condenses sales down to something that I think is very relatable, that makes a lot of sense for people who are in professions. People that are regulated, people that can’t go out and do some of that direct response marketing that’s out there. So your book, The 60 Second Sale, The Ultimate System for Building Lifelong Client Relationships in the Blink of an Eye has a lot of great points in there. I want you to just kind of synthesize for us what is your your big meaning behind the book and what would a person get from from taking a look at that and really diving into some of your strategies. 

Dave Lorenzo: [00:14:56] Yeah, it’s really nice of you to ask. Thank you for doing that. So The 60 Second Sale is all about those moments of truth that we come to when we’re face to face with people. And in that moment in in the blink of an eye, literally, you’re going to either have a favorable connection with someone or people are going to think, well, this is not somebody I really should spend my time with. So don’t waste that moment. Spend that moment figuring out how you can deliver value to the other person. And that’s how you get the relationship off to a good start.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:15:32] So we just talked about that moment in a networking event. If you were like developing a website, let’s say you’re a law firm these days and every law firm has a website, what does every law firm have on their website? Well, it has, we have forty eight years of combined experience and we’re admitted to these fifteen places. And by the way, including the Supreme Court. Right. I work with an IRS resolution attorney who’s admitted to practice in front of the Supreme Court, along with a guy who specializes in water rights on Native American reservations, and he’s admitted to practice in front of the Supreme Court. Right. It’s a nice credential. Yes, it’s a nice credential to have. OK, but that’s what the website has. Now what is wrong with that?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:16:15] Well, there’s a place for that, but it’s not… The place for that is not on the main page of the website. The first 60 seconds that a person comes to your website should be all about them. The first 60 seconds somebody interacts with anything to do with your brand, with your firm, with you, the first 60 seconds has to be about the person who’s on the other side. That’s what we as human beings relate to. You know, we’re all, as humans. We’re all under recognized. So the minute that somebody goes to your website and there’s an article there that speaks to them, specifically to the issue they were looking for, they go, wow, this person really gets me. If I talk to, you know, this article alone is fantastic. If I actually speak with them, they’re really going to get me. And that’s what you’re looking for. So the first 60 seconds of any interaction should be about the other person, not about you. And you have to take that into account. I mean, as lawyers, you’re really going out trying to build a business with a rock tied to your leg because you can’t go out and say, hey, I’m a lawyer. You got any problems I can solve? You know, and that’s what most business people do. As a lawyer, what you need to do is you need to be the person who’s there to solve any legal issue for the person in front of them, regardless of whether it’s in your practice area or not. You know, other lawyers, you can introduce them to other lawyers. So you’re there as somebody who’s just willing to help. If you have that attitude, you’ll master the 60 second sale in no time.

Allison Williams: [00:17:58] Yeah, so, I mean, it is correct that we as lawyers, we we create connections with other lawyers and we can oftentimes solve problems that are not in our wheelhouse. But, you know, I think a lot of lawyers have resistance around this idea of kind of being the great connector. And I don’t know what it is, but it’s kind of like if they’re calling my law firm and I’m a family law firm and they want a criminal defense attorney, that’s like not my not my thing right. And I tell lawyers all the time, like, you need to have a book of lawyers in every county and every surrounding area and all the practice areas so that when people call, you are remembered fondly because you went the extra step to actually help them. So when when you’re talking to a lawyer, like I know that you have a consultancy, right. So you help, you’re a business strategy consultant and so you help people through the process of generating more in their business. So if you’re working with a lawyer, what would be the advice that you would give or how would you start to assist them through this process of being that professional who who has to overcome some of that resistance to being the great connector and networking in a way that asks those specific questions? What would be kind of the starting point?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:19:04] Yes. So step one is making sure that you know who your ideal client is. And I find that some people never get beyond step one, unfortunately. So if you’re listening to the show today, the best thing you can do for yourself is realize what business you’re in and who your ideal client is. So your ideal client is not everyone who works in real estate. If you’re a real estate attorney, there’s something that you have. There’s some magic that you have that enables you to do one type of thing better than all others. And there’s a certain type of client that you just seem to do your best work for. And the world is full of every different breed of dog, cat, pig, elephant when it comes to clients. So you don’t have to worry about being everything to everyone. Just be that person who brings the magic to one specific type of client or with one specific type of either transaction or litigation matter. You know, I see people all the time that’s… 

Dave Lorenzo: [00:20:09] Everybody who’s a litigator specializes in complex commercial litigation. Right. Nobody does the simple stuff. I have a simple contract dispute. Oh, I do complex commercial litigation. So you’re not going to handle my simple? Oh, of course I will. You know, don’t be a knucklehead. All right. Focus on the specific place you bring the magic who that specific client is. Be able to articulate who that specific client is and watch what happens. It’s like the seas suddenly part and those clients immediately will come to the surface. Now, once we know who your ideal client is, step number two is to figure out how we can target that specific type of client in a group setting. So, for example, if you’re in a B2B practice and your ideal client is someone who is a let’s say, they’re an educator and they create a lot of content and you’re an intellectual property attorney, well, there are groups or associations for people who are educators who create a lot of content.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:21:13] So your goal should be to develop the perfect webinar or the perfect video series and offer it to the association to put on their website just as an educational offering. What will happen then is you’ll become known in very short order as the go to person for that specific area. Once you become known as the go to person, guess what happens? People are going to go to you. Shocking. It happens all the time, right? You’re the go to person. People go to you that… Those are the first two steps. But the first one, Allison, is so important because, you know, everybody thinks that they can be everything to everyone in their specific practice area. And you don’t have to be. Just focus on the place where you bring the magic.

Allison Williams: [00:22:01] Yeah. So, you know, we work with a lot of solo attorneys and a lot of them… The very first thing we recommend that they do is break the mold of being yourself. Right. So being themselves usually means, oh, great, great. I’ve got 19 different practice areas on my website and I can do any of them. And there’s no differentiated message. There’s no, there’s no call to action that says I am the best at… It is just a long list of possibility for them. Right? And it sounds like you’re really in the same vein that we are. Very much about focusing on who who is going to get the best result from you and then offering and being all about that all of the time so that people know that you are, as you said, that go to person.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:22:39] Sure. Sure.

Allison Williams: [00:22:40] Yeah.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:22:41] Also, by the way. Litigators who are out there, complex commercial litigation or vet the company litigation. That’s what everybody says. Give me something different. Right. Tell me what makes you different. I specialize in transnational torts. Now, you got my attention transnational towards. Tell me what that means. Right? Or I focus on helping companies whose intellectual property is stolen by somebody else. Really? So you handle you know, you’re an expert in handling intellectual property litigation. I get it. I specialize in patent nullification. I work with pharmaceutical companies. Hmm. That’s really interesting to me. I don’t care what else you do. If somebody’s asking you what you do, pick an area of your specific expertise and use that as a descriptor. Don’t worry about being too narrow because narrow makes you more interesting.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:23:36] And you can always go from narrow to broad, but really convincing people that, well I handle all types of litigation. Sure, I can handle your probate litigation, but you just told me that you handled a contract dispute. Now you’re going to handle probate litigation. I don’t understand. Aren’t there people who just do probate litigation? Much easier to focus on narrow when you’re describing your stuff and your your expertise and then broaden out. Think of it this way. And I use this analogy all the time. My doctor, my general practitioner is a cardiologist, but he’s completely qualified to give me my annual physical. And, you know, when I get the flu, he’s the guy I call because he’s a doctor. If I ever have a heart attack, God forbid he’ll be the guy I go to see because he’s a cardiologist. But he doesn’t go around telling people when they ask what he does. He doesn’t go around saying, I have a general family practice. He says, no, I’m a board certified cardiologist. Oh, but if you want, I also have a generalized practice and I can see you for just about anything. So that’s the attitude you need to have as a lawyer, too. Here are a couple of things that I do. I just had a case in this area and I was really happy doing it. We got a great result. I do other other types of litigation too, but I really enjoy that type of litigation. It gets me excited. He gets me fired up.

Allison Williams: [00:24:57] Yeah. So we like to say riches in those niches. Right. So you kind of get that very small, pinpoint, granular area and like you said, you branch out.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:25:05] Yeah, no, it’s, you know. Being known for something specific. And when other, when people come to you and they ask you to do other things, that’s the time when you can say, you know, I did have three cases in this area over the last two years. I can work on that if you’d like me to.

Allison Williams: [00:25:22] Right. So they’ve you’ve been just such a wealth of information. But I want to specifically talk about your podcast, because one of the things I’m a big proponent of is that we as lawyers need to absorb as much information as we can that are going to help us in the competencies that we need. So, your Inside BS Show is a really, a great resource for information for lawyers. And what would a lawyer listening to your podcast walk away with if they were, if they were seeking out some guidance?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:25:47] Yeah. So we do a show every day. I do an interview every single day. And also under the same Inside BS umbrella, I post a sales strategy tip on YouTube every day. And each week I try to interview… I do one interview on Mondays. We do what’s called necessary conversations where we focus on diversity and inclusiveness. I spend a lot of time talking about the lack of diversity in professional services. Last week I interviewed the CEO of the Dream Exchange, which is the first minority owned stock exchange in the United States. The week before that, I interviewed Katie Fang, who’s a very successful lawyer here in Florida. She’s also a contributor to MSNBC and CNBC. So diversity and inclusiveness is a focus for us. On Mondays, we do a topic with a lawyer or other professional service provider. Usually on Thursdays we talk about business development and growth strategy. The rest of the week, I look for really interesting people who have the type of narrow focus that we were just talking about.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:26:55] So I interviewed a guy. His name was “Super” Sid Clevenger, and he was a little bit all over the place when I first started interviewing him. But we talked for an hour about specifically using Facebook groups as a strategy for developing a community. And professional service providers can do this highly, effectively. Well, I got like forty five minutes into my conversation with Sid, and he mentioned to me that he had suffered from anxiety and panic attacks. So I had had the same situation. And it started with me when I was managing a big business in the financial district in New York during 9/11. And we went on for the next twenty minutes to talk about anxiety. The response to that was overwhelming. So I focused one day now on mental health, stress, anxiety, and people love those shows.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:27:49] So we cover kind of the gamut of things that are affecting professionals and people in business today. And it’s essentially a conversation that you would have if you and your friends were sitting around talking about work. Sometimes you’re going to talk about business development. Sometimes you’re going to talk about diversity and inclusiveness. Sometimes you’re going to talk about anxiety.

Dave Lorenzo: [00:28:09] We had. I did one show with how to manage kids at home and home schooling while you’re working from home. And people love that, too. So the topics are driven by the people in the audience. And they’re really interesting things that affect those of us who are in professional services. And we’re trying to build a business and, you know, these days manage 15 other things while we’re working from home.

Allison Williams: [00:28:34] All right, Dave Lorenzo, the author of The 60 Second Sale and host of The Inside BS Show, you have, as I said before, been just a wealth of information. And I’m really excited to bring you as a resource to this community. If someone wants to get a hold of you to learn more about how you can help them specifically in their business, where should they reach out?

Dave Lorenzo: [00:28:53] They can go to my website. Dave Lorenzo Dotcom. That’s where you can find links to the podcast. You can get a whole host of free resources. And if anybody mentions Allison or Crushing Chaos when they reach out to me, if you want to email me at ask dave at D Lorenzo Dotcom, if they mentioned you, I will sign and send them a free copy of my book. The first five people that reach out to me mention Allison or Crushing Chaos. Ask Dave at D Lorenzo Dotcom. First five people. I’ll send a copy of my book absolutely free. 

Allison Williams: [00:29:27] Woo-Hoo! All right. We love freebies and we love Dave Lorenzo. Thank you, Dave, so much for being a guest on the podcast. Everyone, I am Allison Williams, your Law Firm Mentor. Have a great day!

Allison Williams: [00:29:52] Thank you for tuning in to the Crushing Chaos with Law Firm Mentor podcast. To learn more about today’s guests and take advantage of the resources mentioned, check out our show notes. And if you own a solo or small law firm and are looking for guidance, advice or simply support on your journey to create a law firm that runs without you, join us in the Law Firm Mentor Movement free Facebook group. There, you can access our free trainings on improving collections in law firms, meeting billable hours, and join the movement of thousands of law firm owners across the country who want to crush chaos in their law firm and make more money. I’m Allison Williams, your Law Firm Mentor. Have a great day.